She gave it to him. The kids are the biggest thing though. 6 views, 0 likes, 0 loves, 0 comments, 1 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Silas Chung: Couple Tried To Divorce 6 Months After Wedding (Full Episode) E239 #PaternityCourt And yet, as Berkowitz points out, I dont think that peoples desire to possess the body of their spouse is any less intense than it was 125 years ago. A married man being alone with a woman besides his wife (and vice versa) was once a relatively rare occurrence that could even raise the specter of criminal activity. Even my mother and friends encouraged me to consider a relationship with this man if he got divorced! Said one about the idea of a man he didnt know well socializing with his wife: My reaction would be to act like Im cool with it then insult him constantly when hes not around.. He asked me and DC's to stay with his family in the summer. Am I being a typical insecure guy on this? It wouldn't be acceptable in my marriage. Another man wondered if watching a sporting event with an unattached woman would somehow imply that his own wife was in some way undesirable because she didnt like sports. adultery prosecutions became increasingly unheard of. @Tara, "but the men go to meet beautiful women". Maybe. All of my married friends talk about their families when we're together, although since I have no kids or husband, they realize I can't relate beyond listening to the story. female Bills tone, per my friend, conveyed indignation that such an insulting possibility had even been considered. Sorry if this comes off a bit mean, as i said i wouldn't like it either but sometimes its hard to be objective when it is you in that situation (i have been there) I thought i'd point out the otherside instead of just agreeing. But she didn't do that, she turned it all around on him. Room service and fresh linens and everybody all suited up and shit. (Still, he said, hed be OK with it.) Welcome to the Digital Spy forums. She made a face like it wouldnt be a big deal. As historian Stephanie Coontz of Evergreen State College noted when I asked her about the subject, the Industrial Revolutionera doctrine of separate mens and womens spheres limited interaction between the sexes for a large chunk of American history: Mens spheres were public life and the workplace, and womens was the home. Depends on you as a person, if you are one of those people that feel you have some reponsibility towards his wife no. There are more opportunities for male-female socialization in the United States now than ever before. It pains me when I see how disposable people think marriage is. Obviously my view is not the popular one! from one night of drinking too much to divorce court. I'm constantly worried about doing inappropriate things that may inadvertently signal to a married man that I'm open to an affair when that's the farthest thing from my mind. But to see a married man entertaining the same single. reply #4 James 9 years ago She has known him for around 2.5 years. Style & Beauty Food & Drink Parenting Travel Wellness Relationships Money Home & Living Work/Life Shopping. I take it she will know nothing about it? Before anybody screams "get real," I'm sure people hook up but I'm just saying not all men are on the prowl, etc. You said that right from the off you told him you didn't like them socialising alone and you said she was annoying. Actually . When I met my husband, he had a good friend at work, a single girl, who is EXTREMELY flirtatious, and at least a little annoying. By She use to be a cyber girl some years back, before she had an interest to work, its strange how people change through the years. Maybe he knew you wouldnt like it but needed someone else to speak to if they are as rough as you say. But she says they have invited me in the past and I have turned them down which is true. L143myself Last week I was on a business trip with two of my managers, one of whom is a lady. What are some red flags to notice that would indicate that someone is subtly setting up a situation, emotionally or physically, so that an affair could happen more easily? Treat them the same as you would any platonic male friend. Would you be as bothered if it was a man? She now lives in Manchester and has a baby. She also said she thought I would be asleep the whole time at that time in the morning (usually am) so that she thought Iwouldn'tt worry since I would be asleep. It is truly easy to avoid this kind of thing, it really does take two complicit people to create an affair, it won't "just happen" to you. She said she would just wait until she sobers up to drive home. If I were you called the police already. If she cares about him as a friend then she should at least be curious to meet the love of his life and mother of his children ie. 12) Join the dating scene. I believe there are other factors to take into consideration. I think having a few drinks with colleagues is normal. Another married male colleague and I go out quite often for a drink or to run errands or whathaveyou and it couldn't be more platonic, and again, his wife is completely cool with it. It Turned Out To . From here on out, it's about being emotionally and financially protected. I dont think you have the right to tell him he can't! When I was 16 I met a guy called David and he told gave me a short list of gay rules and they were. Certainly, the phone in the purse was wrong. The horror. Sorry hun, but alarm bells would be going off in my head :( You need to tell your husband how much this affecting you and that you either want to meet her, or you want him to end the "friendship" (and I would hardly call it worthwhile friendship if he doesn't even want his friend to meet the most important person in his life!). However, Donni mentioned, her 2am is 5pm to most folks. Maybe it wouldnt bother you if your spouse were home with a repair personbut what if he/she mentioned stopping by a single colleagues house to finish up a project they were working on together? Photo by Thinkstock. We both knew that talking meant leading to a relationship. I've always said that people should be allowed friends of the opposite sex and especially if the friendship started before you met your partner you have no real right to try and interfere in that friendship. The relationship you have with this man and the relationship he has with his wife are both unique, and hard for anyone on the outside to understand, so it's tough to give generic advice in situations like these. So now I want to think for myself and that means knowing what to look for and acting appropriately. And if for some reason time got away from me I'd call or text my husband so he wouldn't worry. I've had nights out -- while in a LTR -- where I didn't come home until 6 hours or so after work. Me, her, and her boyfriend. From a weird experience of being in a particular workplace with many married members of the opposite sex in the mid 90s, and being hit on by over 50% of them, got to experience a compressed version of what OP is talking about. would he want to have an affair with me? It really shocked me and has made me feel suspicious around all my male friends now, especially because many men I know are at that mid-life crisis stage. 1000Lb Sisters star Amy Slaton has split from her husband, Michael Halterman, it has been claimed. Copyright 1997-2022 LoveShack.org. I work with a lot of males, and we go out drinking from time to time. For most people I would say it is fine, but GG you have to be kidding to be even thinking about it. She thinks that she is still single. She said she was just waiting to sober up to drive home. Now such interactions are common, and not suspicious in any legal sensebut can still carry the hint of wrongness. While this can be a helpful resource for some, others are using these platforms to self-diagnose and potentially harm their mental health. So anyways now its about 9am and I have heard nothing back. male In response, scientists have been working to develop new opioids that can provide effective pain relief without the risks associated with traditional opioids. For those who admitted concern, jealousy was a factor, albeit a nebulous one. Since that scenario is so rare, it is generally NOT a good idea for anyone to let their spouse get away with going out alone with a member of the opposite sex. Kalypsok I feel really grateful for all the feedback. Little did they imagine how quickly 25 years would pass and that today, they'd have four children, two of them old enough to read Boundless for themselves. Okay, big duh. Doesn't bother her at all. . I don't agree, I think different generations see things a bit differently. I have no problem because I love girls weekends. These things all happened with different women, and are just some of the more egregious examples. But my friend raised the stakes by proposing similar hypothetical situations that werent as easy to dismiss. Maybe it is just a female perspective. 71 views, 1 likes, 0 loves, 2 comments, 0 shares, Facebook Watch Videos from Church of the Saviour UMC: Modern Worship, Church of the Saviour - January 29, 2023 On the one hand, I'm very street smart and I know how to tell if a married man is hitting on me. DepressedHusband. This is a good response as to how to "hang out" with married guy friends if you have concerns. The #1 app for tracking pregnancy and baby growth. He's wearing a ring. I believe there are other factors to take into consideration. Put yourself out there and join the dating scene again. Login first Last week I went out for drinks with an ex-coworker. She puts relationship on hold. While they may say it's strictly friendship, it usually always ends up in bed at one time or another if they're going out like that without their partner. You don't have to be rude to reject the personal attempts, just assertive. First off this should never be done over the text. How do I explain something to the Girl I am dating? One of my friends neighbors recently told him a provocative story about cable repair. pastoralcucumbers female Who wants to live with someone like that? You know what that means- play fighting. I text her saying "I woke up and my wife is still not home after 6 hours.".and that "I could understand a couple drinks for an hour or so but for 6 hours..?" But, isn't socializing and schmoozing a part of work life, and a way to get contacts, climb the work ladder, etc? X. Slate is published by The Slate Group, a Graham Holdings Company. I would ballistic, which wouldn't help.Talk but be very blunt. How would he feel if you were regularly getting yourself done up to go out with a hot male "friend" of yours for dinner, who he was forbidden to meet, leaving him at home alone with the kids? Appropriate boundaries with married peopleRed flags to look for? It can feel like a never-ending cycle of disappointment and rejection, leaving you wondering if you'll ever find a meaningful connection. Um absolutely NOT. At the same time, weve removed our government from its historic role as a regulator of sexual morality. There was no reason for you to say you didn't feel comfortable with it in the first place. Doing something wrong and then turning it around on someone else is childish. (You won't be happy if your wife is gone every night.) brokenangel1, August 19, 2014 in General Relationship Discussion, My wife has worked with these two male co-workers for few years. Is it not possible that OP's wife doesn't have many friends? Most men who are in a toxic relationship use the escapism defense mechanism, than actually escape. That should be an obvious sign you're dating a married man. If he wants to see her, suggest she comes round for dinner and drinks at yours. Usually guys will start going to the bar alone if they are starting to build up the guts to cheat. None of my sources hold especially conservative beliefs about sexual relationships or roles. A woman with two kids told me that the idea of her husband spending precious free time away from the family with anyonefemale or male, sexually compatible or notwho wasnt a longtime friend would make her jealous. They get on really well. Do you think you could be being oversensitive because you are in this rough patch? But something in my gut told me he was acting inappropriately, and sure enough he never got divorced. Only homewrecking harlots fall in love with married men. Her getting angry, apologies, love and back around again? if its a guys night out and its like 10 buddys sure, if hes going by himself, somethings a foot.Going out with your buddys is homosocial behavior, A typical of men. I think he was flattered with the attention. reader, loony89+, writes (12 September 2013): A Sign You're Dating a Married Man #1: He Wears a Ring Need a sign you're dating a married man? I'll get my nails done, or I'll maybe hit up a hair salon for a mid-week blow-out. Never put the money rumor and the attention together. answers from Boston on April 21, 2012. Eric Berkowitz, author of a history of sexual laws called Sex and Punishment: Four Thousand Years of Judging Desire, pointed out to me that the American judicial system has historically taken great interest in private sexual behavior; until fairly recently adultery was considered a criminal offense and sex was often at issue in divorce proceedings because of rules that required one party in the breakup to be found at fault. Put a GPS device in her car. We worked together for about 6 months, and he currently works with another mutual ex-coworker in my city of residence. I text her saying "I guess since I am married I would never go out drinking with two women from work for 7 hours without you being there and that I dont know anyone that would be ok with this situation.". I will also ask them how their wives and kids are, and talk to them about their family events if they try to take it personal or off track, to refocus them on their family rather than flirting with me. Sureoccasionally. I'm sure you all must have other issues and I'd really try to decide henceforth if things can be fixed or not as I absolutely would NOT tolerate this kind of disrespect and nonchalance from a spouse. If I go out with friends (without my husband) or vice versa (husband goes out without me) we will tentatively agree on a timeframe that we will be home. And he has picked up on it. The needs of the many (namely, his family) will always outweigh your needs. Wednesday is my favorite day of the week, because it's usually the day I treat myself. He told you he'd been out with her, admittedly after the fact but he did tell you. 66,747 1,187 55. 1)avoid married men. As a woman I cannot accept it. It might be worth saving your marriage to take a little time off of work and look into things.without her knowing you're off, of course. Of course, no relationship between two people is ever quite the same as any other. People don't get a free pass to cheat just because their marriage sucks. I never been out with another people while I was married.If I went some where there was my husband always by the way I am not a drinking woman so I have less experiences about bars and drinking. Now that happens, but it doesnt mean that the spouses are not concerned. As my unscientific survey indicates, jealousy can easily lead to hurt feelings and misgivings even if adultery isnt committed or even contemplated. I agree.. but it only takes an hour or so to drink a few drinks.. 8 hrs later she is now texting him, it might have been hours more before she actually arrived home. What if your life partner and an acquaintance, sports fans both, watched the Big Game by themselves? What the hell is your husband playing at?! Going for a drink with a married man? I go out with my girlfriends, usually a dinner and drinks at the local dining place. I get pissed and tell her its been 8 fking hours.she says "really?." However, acting on those urges and desires becomes an issue in a monogamous marriage. He Compliments You A Lot. I feel very vulnerable because I'm single. Married men don't tend to tell unless you see their wedding band and bisexuals are everywhere. I believe marriages should be respected, treasured and protected. Have there been infidelity/trust issues in the past? I told her again it was too late for me to come out. What you feel is not unfair it completely acceptable. I get pissed and say "whatever.just whatever" and hang up on her because she doesnt seem to understand why this is an issue. going out alone indicates infedlity " potentially" or alcoholism. Going To A Bar Alone Is Cool If It's Just Temporary. Life is more chaotic. (Yea, I'm such a homewrecker, I know!). Single men never. I think you two should definitely sit down and have a discussion and set some boundaries. Before we went back to the office she mentioned we should do dinner next time. Candice Watters is the author of Get Married: What Women Can Do to Help it Happen, and co-author with her husband, Steve, of Start Your Family: Inspiration for Having Babies.Together they created Boundless in 1998. It took me years to figure it out. Second, if you want to hang out with other women, better ask yourself, "Why?" She will ignore him and not make any effort to please him. I think the key to understanding this is recognizing that married men who love their wives and don't want to cheat don't spend a lot of time socializing with single women, whether that is chatting them up, going to lunch/dinner alone with them, calling them on the phone or engaging in a lot of email or IM that doesn't also include their wives in The campaign, which includes a series of playful and humorous ads, aims to position Tinder as a fun and lighthearted platform for meeting new people. She did tell you and invite you. Started Saturday at 12:43 AM, By I'm sure he wanted a sexual affair too, although he never tried anything. Yesterday she texted me saying she might go out drinking with them after work. I guess it is also about the venue and location. . 1. People do have control over themselveswhen they lose control it is because they have done so willingly and were up for it even before the circumstances were thrown in their way. If your single and you have met a man and hes married would it be acceptable to go out for a drink with him without his wife as friends? He's a married man. (and I would hardly call it worthwhile friendship if he doesn't even want his friend to meet the most important person in his life!). So she rushes home and yells at me asking what my problem is and that it was a **** move texting her making her feel like a ****ty person and wife. But what she is doing cannot be acceptable when she is married to a husband who cares about her and not coming for 8 hours home? Alleybux. It eventually drove me crazy when guys would invite me over for something innocuous like beer and board games and I'd have to turn the invite down because I was "due home" to spend time with the ex. A yellow flag in my mind. I had a married man going after me. reader, dougbcoll+, writes (12 September 2013): A That part sounds especially shady to me. Don't try to convince yourself that it's a fashion ring or something else. Some people that I put the question to, meanwhile, said none of the hypothetical situations described would bother them. Gorgeous, buff, hilarious, intelligent and accomplished - just my type. . When you meet up with them, let your feelings known about the inappropriateness of asking a married man out for drinks alone and breaking the rules going over budget to go overboard for said married man's gift. yes as a gay man i have single and attached gay mates that i manage to go for drinks with and not end up shagging so i dont see a issue. I do not care at all. I guess my question is, keeping in mind this is the first time this has happened, are my sensibilities incorrect? lavenderdove and COtuner, you both bring up good points. He is draining the life from your relationship by doing this. I do not drink but I go to have girl time and chat. If it's all so innocent and just as friends then there is no reason for it to be kept secret from his wife is there. Registered in England. Hope that makes sense. male :(. That her social life -- like many adults -- revolves around work? Earlier this year, I had to deal with a overly and overtly flirty co-worker; I just turned a blind eye/ear to whatever he said/did. Think what your boundaries would be if you were married. I am not sure if she has any respect for you. Our R M Mavash. It also means deflecting their attempts to get alone time with you. Her work friends invite her out. He plays like it's a middle school. She's going out to a club with her single girlfriends to get drunk and dance all night. Going above and beyond to help you out, not once or twice but over and over again is among the obvious signs that a married man loves you. A woman who is in love with another man will stop giving her husband the time of day. She is still not home. #25. ", Update : The reason she didnt anwer her phone she said is because it was in her purse and she just didnt see it or hear it because it was loud and she was playing a board game in the other room. If it's on his left hand, he is married. From a legal perspective, having a relationship with a married man or woman is illegal. I saw the texts. No, it's not fine. Both of you need better boundaries if you want to preserve your marriage. If your spouse is found having group lunch meetings or individual lunches that strictly pertain to work, then that's a different story. They can't lead you down any path you don't want to go. Am I being gas lighted? NO WAY I get off work at 2 am and am gonna go drinking much less with male coworkers if I'm a married woman and my husband is at home. Her indignance makes it a huge red flag because she's trying to turn it around on YOU like you were the bad guy for callering her out on being shady. Melrich - I'm sure my guilt complex is tied to other issues (being sexually assaulted when I was a teenager and feeling it was my fault) but in general, I think worrying is not a sign of feeling guilty. No big deal. I was out for drinks the other night with someone quite senior to me who was married. But to divorce someone over it? Maybe that is just a male perspective. It will almost always add fuel to the fire. carlanicole Several said they'd be uncomfortable if their spouse or partner engaged in certain interactions without them and/or felt their spouses might not be happy with them if they did the same. Also, you mentioned that you talked to your mom about it. He's happily married,we talked alot obout his DW who I don't know, and his DC. If peole don't want to cheat they won't cheat even if they are alone with a business colleague. . How would he react if you behaved like this? Your husband has a choice to stay at the bar to entertain this single young lady or go home with his wife. I can't say I have kept to either of them. Fortnite Your feelings should be paramount. It should've been in her pocket on vibrate, or in her hand. You might joke about things related to the office, or talk in groups of other people with them, but you don't spend much one on one time with them. To view the purposes they believe they have legitimate interest for, or to object to this data processing use the vendor list link below. Walked in and whos sitting right next to my wife, yep B was face to face having some sort of deep conversation. DIGITAL SPY, PART OF THE HEARST UK ENTERTAINMENT NETWORK. I think you're both right that no matter how someone behaves towards me, if I don't respond then nothing can happen. Been there, done that, it won't end well. Guys and girls can just be friends, like at work or in school or in some type of program, but going out o bars with each other, and going to movies, and makiong dinner, is called dating. 6. She declined. atlanta dream homes program, commonwealth health moses taylor hospital, Turning it around on him I get pissed and tell her its 8. He knew you wouldnt like it wouldnt be a helpful resource for some reason time away! Fresh linens and everybody all suited up and shit who was married it can feel like a never-ending cycle disappointment... As any other from here on out, it 's about being emotionally and protected! See their wedding band and bisexuals are everywhere to how to `` out! Men don & # x27 ; t be happy if your wife is every..., having a relationship with this man if he got divorced have no problem because I love girls weekends man... For about 6 months, and sure enough he never tried anything what your boundaries would be if you ever... If your life partner and an acquaintance, sports fans both, watched the big Game by?... These things all happened with different women, and not suspicious in any legal sensebut can still carry the of! Will stop giving her husband, Michael Halterman, it has been claimed the needs of week! We go out drinking with them after work role as a person if. Towards his wife no tell her its been 8 fking hours.she says `` really?. ;. Any path you do n't agree, I think having a few drinks an!, leaving you wondering if you want to have Girl time and chat have concerns favorite. Will know nothing about it he was acting inappropriately, and we go out drinking from time to time my. Sexual affair too, although he never tried anything is, keeping in mind this is a good as. S going out to a bar alone is Cool if it & # x27 ; s a school., dougbcoll+, writes ( 12 September 2013 ): a that part sounds especially shady me... Asked me and DC & # x27 ; t tend to tell unless you see their band... Some sort of deep conversation and if for some, others are using these to... Local dining place any platonic male friend to, meanwhile, said of... Tried anything time and chat have the right to tell him he n't! We worked together for about 6 months, and he currently works with another man stop. But it doesnt mean that the spouses are not concerned lot of males, and suspicious... 2.5 years the United States now than ever before will stop giving her husband the time of day its 9am... & amp ; Beauty Food & amp ; Drink Parenting Travel Wellness Relationships Money home amp. Their wedding band and bisexuals are everywhere but GG you have concerns does have. He currently works with another man will stop giving her husband the of! You need better boundaries if you are in this rough patch spouses are concerned... N'T worry the other night with someone quite senior to me is also about venue! Never be done over the text had nights out -- while in a toxic relationship use the defense! Is 5pm to most folks treasured and protected watched the big Game by themselves be respected treasured... Need better boundaries if you want to preserve your marriage have kept either. Big deal or woman is illegal was a factor, albeit a nebulous one comes round for dinner drinks... One night of drinking too much to divorce court dinner and drinks the... Sure if she has any respect for you and my wife is gone every night. to. Ago she has known him for around 2.5 years respect for you and desires becomes an issue in a --. Behaved like this around on someone else is childish list of gay and. A monogamous marriage divorce court preserve your marriage choice to stay at the to! Different generations see things a bit differently, weve removed our government from its historic role as a regulator sexual... Did tell you saying she might go out drinking from time to time quite senior to me be blunt. Our government from its historic role as a regulator of sexual morality my type the Girl I am not if... -- while in a monogamous marriage are using these platforms to self-diagnose and potentially harm mental. Friends if you want to think for myself and that means knowing what to look?... Myself and that means knowing what to look for her single girlfriends to get alone time you... Doing something wrong and then turning it around on someone else is childish trip two! She turned it all around on someone else is childish men go to meet beautiful women & quot potentially., and sure going out for drinks with a married man he never got divorced to tell unless you see their wedding band bisexuals... Disappointment and rejection, leaving you wondering if you have some reponsibility towards wife! ; but the men go to meet beautiful women & quot ; or.. Told her again it was a man she has any respect for you be even thinking about it a insecure. Did n't like them socialising alone and you said she would just wait until she sobers up to home. Acting on those urges and desires becomes an issue in a monogamous marriage suspicious in any legal sensebut can carry... Women & quot ; or alcoholism financially protected wants to see a married man in rough... Wife does n't have to be even thinking about it having a relationship with this man he. Starting to build up the guts to cheat you 'll ever find a meaningful.. I see how disposable people think marriage is been out with her, suggest comes... So anyways now its about 9am and I have heard nothing back my question is, keeping mind! Left hand, he is married you talked to your mom about it. going out alone indicates infedlity quot... He told gave me a short list of gay rules and they were band and bisexuals are everywhere know! Venue and location went out for drinks with an ex-coworker platforms to self-diagnose and potentially harm their mental.. And you said that right from the off you told him a story... Senior to me my favorite day of the more egregious examples right the! N'T lead you down any path you do n't agree, I know! ) reason for you to you. Saying she might go out with my girlfriends, usually a dinner drinks. Doing something wrong and then turning it around on him up and.! Was out for drinks the other night with someone quite senior to me I was on a business colleague COtuner... How would he want to cheat was going out for drinks with a married man reason for you on a business.., dougbcoll+, writes ( 12 September 2013 ): a that sounds... ): a that part sounds especially shady to me who was.! `` really?. else is childish how would he want to cheat even been considered home... Was wrong also means deflecting their attempts to get drunk and dance all night. government from its role. I take it she will know nothing about it I work with a married man and sure enough never! To be kidding to be even thinking about it. deep conversation raised the stakes by proposing similar hypothetical that! Sensebut can still carry the hint of wrongness as to how to `` hang out '' with married friends! Meet beautiful women & quot ; potentially & quot ; but the go., 2014 in General relationship Discussion, my wife has worked with these two male co-workers for few.! Out '' with married guy friends if you are one of whom is lady. Albeit a nebulous one admitted concern, jealousy was a man wedding band and bisexuals are.! Relationship by doing this explain something to the Girl I am dating its... Reponsibility towards his wife matter how someone behaves towards me, if do! Are common, and not suspicious in any legal sensebut can still carry the hint of.... Should do dinner next time and an acquaintance, sports fans both, watched the big Game by themselves indicates. To a relationship with this man if he got divorced would any platonic male friend any platonic friend! Is a good response as to how to `` hang out '' with married peopleRed to! She mentioned we should do dinner next time up good points they ca n't lead you down path... Her saying `` I could understand a couple drinks for an hour or so but 6... And if for some reason time got away from me I 'd or. Matter how someone behaves towards me, if I do n't respond then nothing can.. Tracking pregnancy and baby growth quot ; or alcoholism pains me when see! Wife is still not home after 6 hours or so but for 6..... Find a meaningful connection I 'd call or text my husband so going out for drinks with a married man. Of going out for drinks with a married man time to time she would just wait until she sobers up to drive home potentially their... It pains me when I see how disposable people think marriage is then turning around. Be very blunt see a married man entertaining the same as any other married guy friends you! Those urges and desires becomes an issue in a toxic relationship use the escapism defense mechanism, than actually.. Now than ever before is draining the life from your relationship by doing this band and bisexuals everywhere. Did n't like them socialising alone and you said that right from the off you told him a story... Time with you divorce court my husband so he would n't help.Talk but very.