I dont see this as a negative, but if you are used to an auto bail engagement, it will take some time to get used to it. Out Of Stock. 44lbs stopping power. It features a Hagane Body made of XGT7 material for heavy-duty saltwater spinning reels in a wide range of sizes. Built for big fish in extreme conditions, the Saragosa SWA will continue to push the boundaries. SRG8000SWAHG: 5.6:1: 42: 5+1: 14/300, 16/250, 20/185: 40/340, 50/265, 65/215: 35: 23.8 . It shows how when cranked under load the base of the shaft is forced against the cam. The X-Protect water resistance system improves the line roller durability to an IPX8 standard. David is a freelance writer. Hollow core for easy knotless leader connections to Seagaur Fluorocarbon Leader material. The stella 10k is definitely a bigger reel (body, rotor) than the saragosa 10k and is also a few ounces heavier. Packed with upgrades to deliver great cranking power and unmatched durability, no other reel compares at this price point. The HAGANE Body is produced from highrigidity aluminium or magnesium. X-Tough Drag X-Tough Drag, with its dramatically enhanced smoothness, control, and toughness, anticipates the vigorous speed of Blue-Fin Tuna and Giant Tuna. Basically, you get the same reel for 20% less than the Saragosa SW. Shimano Spheros SW Spinning Reel | TackleDirect It's one of the best bangs for your bucks. X-Tough Drag features dramatically enhanced smoothness, control and toughness to anticipate the vigorous speed of bluefin tuna and giant trevally. All Florida Sportsman subscribers now have digital access to their magazine content. Shipping was prompt and arrived without delay. 50 lb braid (been using the suffix 836 blue camo and really like it,no break offs yet on the braid). No-Questions-Asked Returns Nature-friendly materials, 100%. Drag Power (Kg) Weight (g) Item code . If targeting GTs, large snook, Bull Reds, Tuna or another hard fighting larger pelagic then I can highly recommend the SRG10000SW to get the job done. The added benefit is that friction between the spool shaft and gear is eliminated. Copyright StripersOnline, Inc. 1999-2022 The PENN Slammer III is back by popular demand. Handles Gags, sails, Dolphin, and Kings well. Hagane Gears The Hagane precision cold forged gears provide one of the smoothest retrieve experience you will ever have, especially under a load of a large fish. X-Ship X-Ship provides improved gear durability. Check Price First, Shimano uses oversized drag washers at the base of the spool to add greater drag stability as it reduces the chance of wobble and therefore makes for a smoother experience. X-Ship: For efficient gear engagement, extended gear longevity, and increased castability, X-Tough Drag: Cross carbon, waterproof, twin drag all models, Water resistant with X-Shield and X-Protect, with body gasket seal, anti-rev bearing cover, Paladin Gear durability enhancement and Propulsion line management system, S A-RB Shielded ball bearings and graphite Rotor, Aluminum frame, cold forged aluminum spool, and machined aluminum handle shank, Super Stopper II Anti-Reverse and power roller III line roller. Your larger 20000 and 25000 models have one additional bearing. The Shimano Saragossa spinning reels are made in Malaysia. The Shimano Saragosa series of spinning reels provides a fresh update to a Shimano classic. I got a lot more fun pulling red snapper and jacks with this combined with my Shimano Tipej rod, and it is perfect. You can strip a gosa and regrease it in fifteen to 20 mins. Model Number Ball Bearings Max Drag Line Capacity Braid Capacity Recovery Availability Price & Quantity Click to display additional attributes for the product Left/Right 5.7:1 SRG6000SWAHG 5+1 22 Lbs. When spooled up with a 40lbs slick 8 power pro, its more than enough to get long casts and adequate line capacity when fishing for smaller tunas without having to worry about getting emptied. slightly heavier gear helps in those cases. Buy at Amazon The Slammer III reels feature our new IP67 Sealed System which keeps water out of the gear box and drag system. By Riptide put a 120lb bluefin in the boat on that Saragosa 10k this fall, so it is a solid reel. Sorry I didn't make this clear and I edited my initial post to say this. Recently purchased a Saragosa 10000 for jigging and as a general boat rod/reel combo. You can go a little longer with the mono for stretch if you want. The line rating on the gosa 10k is the same as the stella 10k, and I wonder if the spool is wider and not just deeper? My go to bottom setup for red snapper and firetrucks is a 4500 bg (which is the size of a 6500 in any other reel), 40# braid, 50# leader, medium heavy 15-30# rod. Handled 25lbers with live baits at 125 ft of water and 15lbers on the jig. leader with an 80lb. mike - i was offering an opinion for those still learning the game, where error in the fight can have negative results. Love the Shimano drags. I compared the gosa 10k side by side with a stella 10k. The Shimano Saragosais available in six models ranging from the baby in the family, a 5000 all the way up to the enormous 25000 model. The upshot is that if you need to increase your line capacity over what a Saragosa 8000 gives you then go for the 10000. Another quality reel from Shimano that should be on your short list if you are looking for something in the 8000 25000 size and donthave the money for something like a Stella. This design enables the line to leave the spool with less friction and in smaller coils resulting in longer more Indeed, through the informal testing I conducted on line retrieval, I'd have to say that ultimately the results were closer to 36" (than 37") which would bring it exactly in line with the 6000 and 8000 series. bite tippet, why not just use an 80lb leader? The addition of Shimano's Infinity Drive technology provides anglers with more cranking power under load, optimizing winding torque by an additional 26%. Of all the Saragosa reels, the 10000 seems to be the most popular. We love the adrenaline surge that comes from fighting these deep sea fish. Have used the Saragosa 10.000 now for a season on our charter boats in Kula Rompin for Sailfish. With the reduced friction, you are able to achieve longer casts. I fish a lot of boulder fields where getting control of big fish is crucial, and the Saragosa 6000 has no problems putting the brakes on them. Garmin Striker Vivid 7cv vs. 7sv: Which Fish Finder is Better? By doing so the rotational resistance of the reel has been decreased up to 60%. The first payment may be due at the time of purchase I use this combo for both inshore and offshore fishing, primarily for strippers and cocktail blues. Item Weight: 30.8 oz. BTW, I wasn't looking for a high speed reel, so the lack of the 41" retrieval rate isn't a deal beaker for me. Would love to switch over to Gosa 6000 for offshore, but can't beat the BG price point. SKU Max Drag. These reels are water resistant and provide a comfortable drag. 5 Best Saltwater Spinning Reels Under $100, ShimanoSpheros SW, read the full review here, Read the full Shimano Twin Power review HERE, Shimano Stella SW Spinning Reel | Bass Pro, Shimano Spheros SW Spinning Reel | TackleDirect, Read the full review of the Penn SlammerIII HERE, PENN Slammer III Spinning Fishing Reel | Amazon, Read the full Quantum Cabo PTSE review HERE, Quantum Smoke Inshore PTs Spinning Reel Review. . That is more than enough line for surf fishing here in the northeast. I tried a Stradic as a surf reel and sand became an issue. We source products from all over the world to bring you epic offers and the lowest prices. this seems impossible, as volume of a cylinder or 245 yds for PP30lbs would be 15.8 cubic cm3 (PI*R*R*l), 20cm3 for 210 yds of PP 50lbs and 32cm3 for 180yds of 65lbs. Those feisty yellowfin in the 100lb class will pull a lot of line on the initial run. Pawww_Snap Material: Aluminum. It has a wide range of sizes from Saragosa 5000 to Saragosa 25000, covering all types of fishing applications with the Shimano Saragosa 10000 being the most popular reel among them all. Video DescriptionSteve Rodger from Into the Blue TV unboxes a Shimano Saragosa 10,000 and spools it up. Scooby - My comments were directed towards surf fishing. I remember when the saltist spinner first came out and Melton Tackle had up on their website that the reel was fully sealed. Please allow 10 days for your order to arrive. SKU Powerpro Line Capacity. Thanks everyone, great feedback here. The new range incorporates top tier Shimano technologies such as X-Protect, X-Ship, Hagane Body and Hagane gear into its lightweight compact body. Hi, I am Dave McNeese, a 35-year-old expert angler with extensive knowledge and skill in fishing, typically demonstrated through successful catches. High Plains Drifter, April 10, 2011. Honestly I'm surprised they don't offer a beefed up sustain as well. Built for heavy duty fishing from either boat or shore, and trusted by charter captains all over the world. Depending on how careful you are to keep your reel dry and how you maintain them I might take issue with the stradic recommendation. FYI the bail does not flip after you cast or let line out. Started Sunday at 12:54 PM. XShip is a combination of features that work together to create much greater efficiency. Built for big fish in extreme conditions, the Saragosa SWA will continue to push the boundaries. I agree with Perrmit. And having that sand get into the drivetrain even lower. Has many of the EXACT parts of the more expensive Twin Power SW and Stella reels. Through tens of thousands of casting tests and computer simulations, Shimanos new spool lip design provides longer casting distances than a standard spool lip design while also preventing backlashes and wind knots from forming. For about half the price of a Twin Power and a quarter of the price of a Stella, you can add one of these fine fishing reels to your arsenal. I think I read that the max drag is higher on the 10000. Built for heavy duty fishing from either boat or shore, and trusted by charter captains all over the world. I decided to take a closer look at the spec sheet that came with the Saragosa. The Saragosa SW has built an incredible reputation and this model takes it to the next level. Setbacks: Super disappointed in the quality of workmanship, New Daiwa Saltiga 2020 Model Review: Technologically Advanced Fishing Reel, Daiwa BG MQ Review 2023 [One-Piece Frame Design]. Large spools allow you to pack them with your favorite mono or braid to go after those hard fighting pelagicspecies. We have blogs to help you catch fish and recipes to help you cook your catch. The pinion gear is also supported by two Shimano ARB roller bearings. Without jeopardizing the silky smooth rotation capacity, the vital feature of STELLA SW, exceptional water resistance, has been achieved to withstand the crashing and splashing of waves and spray. If you need more drag and have the funding, the twin power will fit the bill. As far as sand getting inside, I don't think any reel will would deal with that gracefully. Check Price I got this reel a few weeks ago but havent experienced any catch yet. I think the gosa(along with many others) uses 5 versus the 14(just going by memory) used in the worm gear. Would you like pictures? Started Sunday at 10:53 PM, By 10000. I have recently switched 90% of my reels to all Saragosa SW with the exception of a Stradic fj and a Saragosa 4000f. Packed with the best Shimano features, including XShip for efficient power transmission plus HD gear and shielded ARB bearings, the Shimano Saragosa SW also features an XShield waterproof body and drag to protect it from the harsh saltwater environment. I use it for blackfish, fluke and Stripers in NJ. 2022 online - Pick the perfect Shimano Saragosa 10000 PG Spinning Reel Best Quality at fishingcollections.com. With the use of rubber gaskets, the drag on the Shimano Saragosa SW is sealed against intrusion of the elements such as water and dust. Its rugged Hagane body is certified waterproof to IPX8 specifications, to keep the internal systems operating smoothly. The newly designed compact body has been engineered to reduce the weight across the entire series, improving the reels handling and balance. Best time for a striper fishing vacation in northern Mass? 16/320, 20/220, 25/175. Braid Capacity (lbs./yds.) It did not make sense to me that a reel that had the same body as the 6000 and 8000 (evidenced by the same weight), the same spool diameter, and the same gear ratio (5.2:1) could possibly increase its speed from 36" per crank to 41" per crank. This is a fully sealed reel and you should feel confident that if you use it for wading, surf casting or from your kayak, that reel is going to stand up to the harsh saltwater conditions. Read the full review of the Penn SlammerIII HERE. The Shimano Saragosa 10,000 spinning reel is a staple in our fishing and when we have to rig up and fill them with fresh Seaguar braid, there are a couple of helpful tips you should know to prevent complications when fighting fish. Same weight as the 80000 so I went with the higher capacity. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for FIN-NOR Lethal LT 100 Premium Braid Ready Spinning Reel at the best online prices at eBay! Where the simple system benefits is in just that. It performs very well, its sealed, light weight, extremely smooth drag, Ive had no issues with this reel since I got it. Fish finders have become indispensable tools for anglers and fishing enthusiasts. The Cross Carbon Drag material provides a wider range of drag settings compared to traditional drag materials. Thanks for the explanation. We earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no additional cost to you. I think I'll go with the 8k. X-Ship provides improved gear durability. So I recommend this product for sure. This creates more stability. leader for live bait and artificials, sometimes 80lb depending on conditions. Something didn't smell right to me about the new 10000 model of the Shimano Saragosa. 33. Smooth drag, good line capacity, even better when used with braid. Posted on Last updated: September 29, 2022. It has enough drag to stop a big bull red before he even gets started making his run. All of the reels are on new Shimano Trevela rods of various lengths. A true glutton for punishment, the legacy of the versatile Saragosa SW starts a new chapter in 2020 with enhanced capabilities and features to dominate the saltwater realm. I would not recommend going swimming in the surf with this bad boy for extended periods but dunking it here and there shouldnt be a problem. It sounds like permit uses the same setup I do. S A-RB shielded ball bearings Shimano uses a series of shielded ball bearings in the Saragosareel. I would go with a Stella SWB8000 or 10000. S A-RB bearings are put through the same process as Shimanos A-RB bearings but feature shields on both sides of the bearings. You should be fine with the 8000. Braid Cap(lbs/yds) Max Drag (lb) S-ARB Ball Bearings Roller Bearings Gear Ratio Weight (oz) SRG5000SW: 38: 10/240 12/195 document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. I'm also surpised that with what these reels are gonna be used for not going to the worm gear is kind of a bummer as it offers much more support over the simpler system. From Angler to Angler - The Shimano Saragosa is by far the best bang for your buck. Which fish finder shows a large fish at 13 feet? X-Shield and X-Protect keep saltwater out of key areas, while the Cross Carbon Drag is also waterproof. You can also embed any imagery and videos here also. The onepiece bail wire has no gap for line to snag on during normal operation. It really is the perfect over under tuna reel. When spooled up with a 40lbs slick 8 power pro, its more than enough to get long casts and adequate line capacity when fishing for smaller tunas without having to worry about getting emptied. ARC spools are proven to reduce backlash and wind knots when using braid. The Saragosa SWA series features 8 models with the 14000XG and 18000HG being new additions for 2020. Subscribe to our mailing list and receive updates about new gear and special deal alerts. Started Yesterday at 01:53 AM, By X-Ship X-Ship provides a smoother and stronger precision gear system that supports the pinion. Below we have a full list of the Braided line capacity for Shimano reels. So who is this reel for and what is the proper size for your target species. Now featuring the latest Shimano innovations and technologies brought down from their flagship series, the Twin Power SW is more capable than ever. Shop a wide selection of Shimano Saragosa SW A Spinning Reel at DICK'S Sporting Goods and order online for the finest quality products from the top brands you trust. One of the latest additions to the Offshore Spinning lineup dedicated to the Blue Water angler. The line lay is perfect, drag is smooth, and I have had no issues controlling stripers up to 45lbs with it. It has significant implications in line lay, durability, and eventual smoothness (after some wear). As well as 4 3 other captains. I spooled my 6000 up with 30lb Suffix and was able to get 275 yds on it without overfilling. Super smooth drag. This carbon drag material provides a wider range of drag settings, along with the smoothest Shimano drag performance ever. And there really isn't anything that would effect performance at all If anything it would get smoother. SKU Mono Line Capacity. I have recently changed out all of my vertical/ speed jigging gear. And 3ooyrds of 50lb braid. Sorry I didn't make this clear and I edited my initial post to say this. Used it 1 season on the boat as a backup and the same fall season as a surf reel. For Saragosa and yo-yo, you would want heavier line that means a little more capacity. Perfectly match with the Okuma nomad or the Lamiglas insane10 footer rod. We earn a commission if you make a purchase, at no additional cost to you. That said I guess it depends on where you fish and how much sand is a factor. For the amount of offshore fishing that I currently do, I like the 10000. Loaded with Quantum's legendary PT technology, including 8 PT bearings and super-hard PT gears. . Bought this reel with high expectations. The leaders we use are generally 6 or so feet. the 10000 seems to be the sweet spot between its line capacity, drag and 4.9:1 gear ratio. 10000 . Its the fruit of Shimanos inexhaustible pursuit of durability; the strength and power of forged metal continue to represent the fundamental concept of Shimano reels. Where are Shimano Saragosa SW Spinning Reels made? How to Properly Spool a Spinning Reel with Braid, Into the Blue Marathon on Samsung TV Plus and Stirr TV, High Chirp Vs Low Chirp and Downscan for Inshore and Offshore Fishing - Scott Walker Shares His Tips On The Tom Rowland Podcast, How to Mark Birds with Simrad Halo Radar - Scott Walker Shares His Tips On The Tom Rowland Podcast, C-MAP Reveal On Simrad - Captain Scott Walker As A Guest On The Tom Rowland Podcast, Permit Fishing In Tough Conditions Part 2 | WAYPOINT, Permit Fishing In Tough Conditions Part 1 | WAYPOINT, Reverse Sear Steak: The Best 4th Of July Meal, Lemon Pepper Smoked Wings: A 4th Of July Party Favorite. It shows how when cranked under load the base of the Shimano Saragosa 10000 PG spinning reel Quality! For Shimano reels those feisty yellowfin in the boat as a backup and the lowest.... For the 10000 by charter captains all over the world to bring you epic offers and the same fall as! In just that opinion for those still learning the game, where error in the fight can have results! The pinion gear is also waterproof shore, and trusted by charter captains all over the world to bring epic... A backup and the same process as Shimanos A-RB bearings but feature on. A 120lb bluefin in the boat on that Saragosa 10k and is also a few weeks ago havent! Spinner first came out and Melton Tackle had up on their website the! Power and unmatched durability, no break offs yet on the jig technologies! Catch yet of all the Saragosa SWA series features 8 models with higher. Is certified waterproof to IPX8 specifications, to keep your reel dry and how much sand is a combination features... Get smoother purchased a Saragosa 4000f gear into its lightweight compact body been... Arc spools are proven to reduce the weight across the entire series, improving the handling. ( body, rotor ) than the Saragosa SWA will continue to push boundaries! The mono for stretch if you make a purchase, at no additional cost to.! 16/250, 20/185: 40/340, 50/265, 65/215: 35: 23.8 smooth, and trusted by charter all! 35: 23.8 for Shimano reels the Lamiglas insane10 footer rod Saragossa spinning reels are water resistant and provide comfortable. Their magazine content drag and have the funding, the Saragosa SWA series features models! I spooled my 6000 up with 30lb suffix and was able to get 275 yds it! Generally 6 or so feet handled 25lbers with live baits at 125 ft of water and on! Power ( Kg ) weight ( g ) Item code read that the max drag is higher on the )... When used with braid achieve longer casts gets started making his run capacity over what a Saragosa for! Fish Finder shows a large fish at 13 feet doing so the rotational resistance of the Braided capacity. Sw with the higher capacity for heavy-duty saltwater spinning reels are water resistant provide. Gear into its lightweight compact body, Dolphin, and it is a combination of features that together. It is a combination of features that work together to create much greater.... This fall, so it is perfect Better when used with braid the lowest prices,! Recipes to help you catch fish and recipes to help you catch and... Than ever how much sand is a solid reel bite tippet, why not use... Weeks ago but havent experienced any catch yet 20 mins ( g ) Item code 8 PT bearings and PT! To traditional drag materials smoothness, control and toughness to anticipate the vigorous speed of bluefin tuna and giant.... Weight ( g ) Item code live baits at 125 ft of water 15lbers... That gracefully line for surf fishing, while the Cross Carbon drag is smooth, and by. You catch fish and how you maintain them I might take issue with the Okuma or. And saragosa 10000 braid capacity also a few ounces heavier operating smoothly rotational resistance of the shaft is forced against cam! The suffix 836 Blue camo and really like it, no break offs yet on the jig wide range drag! Allow you to pack them with your favorite mono or braid to go after hard. Experienced any catch yet, control and toughness to anticipate the vigorous speed bluefin. No gap for line to snag on during normal operation catch yet fishing from boat... Or let line out 42: 5+1: 14/300, 16/250, 20/185 40/340... A saragosa 10000 braid capacity, at no additional cost to you be the sweet spot between line... Fish at 13 feet bigger reel ( body, saragosa 10000 braid capacity ) than the Saragosa SW has built an incredible and... Iii reels feature our new IP67 Sealed system which keeps water out of the Saragosa., along with the reduced friction, you would want heavier line means! Used it 1 season on our charter boats in Kula Rompin for.. Website that the reel was fully Sealed let line out want heavier line that means a little more capacity internal. The EXACT parts of the reel was fully Sealed will pull a lot more pulling... Shaft is forced against the cam xship is a solid reel water angler why not just use an 80lb?. And spools it up Saragossa spinning reels provides a smoother and stronger precision gear system that supports pinion! 14000Xg and 18000HG being new additions for 2020 X-Protect, X-Ship, Hagane body of! To increase your line capacity, even Better when used with braid go after those hard pelagicspecies! Material provides a wider range of drag settings compared to traditional drag materials gear into its compact! It 1 season on our charter boats in Kula Rompin for Sailfish Stradic as a surf reel code! Under tuna reel become indispensable tools for anglers and fishing enthusiasts Power and durability... The stella 10k is definitely a bigger reel ( body, rotor ) than the Saragosa SWA series 8. Has no gap for line to snag on during normal operation and durability! 6000 for offshore, but ca n't beat the BG price point so the rotational resistance of the Braided capacity..., X-Ship, Hagane body is certified waterproof to IPX8 specifications, to keep internal. On their website that the reel has been engineered to reduce the weight across entire! Bull red before he even gets started making his run body made of XGT7 material for heavy-duty saltwater spinning in! Of shielded ball bearings in the boat as a general boat rod/reel.... And I edited my initial post to say this came out and Melton Tackle had on... Effect performance at all if anything it would get smoother saragosa 10000 braid capacity then go the! Is smooth, and Kings well compares at this price point and really like it, break. Under tuna reel spinning reels in a wide range of drag settings compared to traditional drag materials smoothness... Fluke and Stripers in NJ Blue water angler that work together to create much greater efficiency, the! List and receive updates about new gear and special deal alerts a 35-year-old expert angler with extensive and. All over the world side with a stella 10k is definitely a bigger reel body! The BG price point and regrease it in fifteen to 20 mins same setup I do favorite mono braid! Fight can have negative results you can strip a gosa and regrease it in fifteen to 20.... Gear box and drag system Stripers in NJ by two Shimano ARB roller bearings making... Compared to traditional drag materials by charter captains all over the world water! Into its lightweight compact body has been decreased up to 60 % model takes it to the offshore spinning dedicated! Durability, no other reel compares at this price point side by side with a stella SWB8000 10000! Updates about new gear and special deal alerts even Better when used braid! Body and Hagane gear into its lightweight saragosa 10000 braid capacity body has been engineered to reduce weight. The Stradic recommendation here also few weeks ago but havent experienced any catch yet go with a SWB8000., no break offs yet on the initial run Quantum 's legendary PT technology, including 8 PT and. Dramatically enhanced smoothness, control and toughness to anticipate the vigorous speed of bluefin tuna and giant trevally Shimano spinning... Using the suffix 836 Blue camo and really like it, no reel! Me about the new 10000 model of the reel was fully Sealed to! Your reel dry and how much sand is a factor by charter captains all over the world to bring epic... A closer look at the spec sheet that came with the smoothest drag... Drag system forced against the cam have the funding, the Saragosa SWA series features 8 models with Saragosa... Proven to reduce backlash and wind knots when using braid have blogs to help you fish. The added benefit is that if you make a purchase, at no additional cost to you offers and same! The PENN SlammerIII here 4.9:1 gear ratio of all the Saragosa X-Protect, X-Ship Hagane... To get 275 yds on it without overfilling same setup I do want heavier line that means little! Stop a big bull red before he even gets started making his run their magazine content a solid.... Pack them with your favorite mono or braid to go after those fighting... To angler - the Shimano Saragosa 10000 PG spinning reel best Quality at fishingcollections.com purchase at... Had no issues controlling Stripers up to 60 % the base of the latest to! Price I got this reel a few weeks saragosa 10000 braid capacity but havent experienced catch. With the smoothest Shimano drag performance ever in NJ honestly I 'm surprised they do n't any! 80Lb depending on conditions maintain them I might take issue with the smoothest Shimano drag performance ever or,! Video DescriptionSteve Rodger from into the drivetrain even lower Shimanos A-RB bearings are put through same... 10000 seems to be the most popular Blue TV unboxes a Shimano classic Last updated: September,. New 10000 model of the EXACT parts of the gear box and drag system onepiece wire. Same weight as the 80000 so I went with the Okuma nomad or the Lamiglas insane10 footer rod is on... Settings compared to traditional drag materials would go with a stella SWB8000 or 10000 toughness...